Forums - Essential Guide to Agis Reflector Show all 12 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Essential Guide to Agis Reflector (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=48105) Posted by Evil Gill on 12:02:2001 10:55 AM: Essential Guide to Agis Reflector This thread is for all the Urien experts! Id say I'm about intermediate level w/ Urien at the moment. I know enough to where I can hang w/ and sometimes beat the expert players here in Nebraska, but I feel that if I mastered Agis, I could dominate. So what are the "bread and butter" agis combos that are effective and can be applied to "tournament" situations. I say that because a lot of the Agis combo videos out there, just don't seem very practical and almost damn near impossible to pull off during high stress moments such as a tourney. I know the "unblockable" one. 1. Throw -> low punch agis -> head butt over opponent to land on other side -> go to town. What are a few others? Thanks! Posted by SlimX on 12:02:2001 11:54 AM: Well, first of all, it's Aegis, not Agis. =) Also, you might want to add "3s:" or "SF3:3s:" to the beginning of the thread title or you risk having the thread deleted. As far as a contribution, I figured I'd just paste (a lot) from my Urien guide. =) Here goes: VIII. Aegis Reflector Tactics Aegis Trap Pseudo Combos - (not in the corner) any tackle (hit or blocked) cancel to HP Aegis, dash forward, neutral throw, (Aegis bounce), juggle with low HP, juggle with MP/HP/EX headbutt or (low MP, whiffed headbutt, throw) This is the simplest Aegis trap that the others are based on. This can be plenty effective on its own, but you can only land it on any given opponent a few times before they start to catch on and jump away or tech your throw. It's the variations on it that help keep it confusing. Now, there are a few characters that this Aegis trap won't work on because of the way they bounce off of the Aegis after the throw. It will work on the rest of the characters, though the way you land the low HP is different on different characters. Here's a list to explain it. Group #1: Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Sean The trap was made for these characters. If you perform it correctly, they will bounce two times off of the Aegis and give you plenty of time to juggle. In fact, you need to hold back for a split second before you do the low HP or it will whiff. Also, make sure you wait for them to pass over your head. Group #2: Dudley, Makoto, Oro, Ibuki This group will only take one hit before they bounce off the Aegis, but they still stay in the air long enough to make the low HP pretty easy to land. You'll still need to hold back a split second before doing the low HP. Group #3: Yun, Yang The twins are very small, so you have to hold back longer than usual to land the low HP. Besides that, they're basically like Group #2. Group #4: Remy, Elena, Alex, Urien This group also takes only one hit from the Aegis, but they bounce off more quickly and a shorter distance away. As a result, you don't want to hold back at all before the low HP. In addition, you'll need to perform the low HP the instant they fly over your head. Group #5: Q Q hits the Aegis twice, but because of his erradic juggle properties, you don't want to hold back before doing the low HP. However, since he hits twice, you'll need to wait longer than any other character before performing the low HP. Group #6: Hugo, Necro, Twelve This group will hit the Aegis either once or twice, but it doesn't really matter. Why? Because they bounce the wrong direction (away from you). If you're really fast, you can do a HK tackle the instant you let them go and you'll juggle them (if you're lucky). Group #7: Chun Li &@%$*# Chun Li. For some unknown reason, she drops straight through the Aegis and doesn't bounce at all. It's still possible to use a different version of the trap on her, though (but I'll get to that in a second). - (not in the corner) low HP, EX headbutt, juggle with toward+MK or toward+MP, HP Aegis, dash forward, neutral throw, (Aegis bounce), juggle with low HP, juggle with MP/HP/EX headbutt or (low MP, whiffed headbutt, throw) This variation requires you to land a low HP as well as have enough meter for both the EX headbutt and the Aegis, but it's very effective. The time your opponent has to escape is even shorter than with the standard ground version. - (corner) Anti-air sphere, HK tackle, EX tackle, HK tackle, standing MP, MP sphere cancel to LP Aegis, dash forward, neutral throw, juggle with low HP . . . You want only the tip of Urien's fist to connect when you land the standing MP so you may need to back up a tiny bit before pressing the button. If your opponent gets hit by the Aegis (hit/blocked/parried), then you're doing it too close or too early. Wait until they fall a bit before landing the MP. The MP sphere is supposed to whiff. It's only there to help the timing of the combo and to encourage your opponent to block (leaving himself open for the throw). . . . From here, you can do a few different things. Juggling with a MP/HP/EX headbutt adds on some guaranteed damage. However, there are ways to turn this sequence into a 100% pseudo combo. Akuma, Remy: On these characters, you'll need more meter (two full bars on Remy) but the pseudo has only one escape point (the neutral throw). The EX headbutt after the low HP will stun them. From that point, you can perform a combo on either of them to do a total of 100%. On Akuma, it's very easy. You can do (jump-in HP, low HP, MK tackle) or (taunt, low HP, MK tackle) or (low HP, EX headbutt, HP headbutt). On Remy, you'll need to combine combos as usual. Do taunt, low HP, EX headbutt, HP headbutt to finish him. Anyone else from Group #1, #2, #3 except Dudley, Oro: You can perform this version with only one full Aegis to start. Almost like magic, you'll always have the correct amount of meter for the needed attack if you perform it all as indicated. If you use the low HP, low MP, whiffed headbutt, neutral throw finish, they will be stunned. Then perform taunt, low HP, EX headbutt, HP headbutt/HK tackle to finish them. The low HP, low MP, whiffed headbutt, throw is a pseudo combo, but it's effective if you don't overuse it. The headbutt you use (either LP or MP) depends on the character you are facing. Really, you can always use MP, but if they walk forward after they land (unlikely), it can hit them in the head, ruining the trap. On the other hand, LP headbutt won't move you close enough to grab some characters. Typically, if it's a medium-to-heavy character, use LP. If it's a light character, use MP. Elena, Urien, Chun Li: To perform the MP, MP sphere cancel to LP Aegis part and be able to land the dash, neutral throw, you have to land the standing MP as far away and as late as possible. Hold back until you're at the maxium distance that the MP will hit, wait for them to fall a bit, then perform the sequence. It's risky to perform on these characters because of the odd way they fall. They don't all act the same, but the solution works on all of them. The finish itself is the same as the Group #1, #2, #3 characters. In case I haven't made it obvious, the trap won't work on anyone with a long stun bar (Alex, Dudley, Q, Oro, Hugo) because the whole sequence won't stun them. It also won't work on Necro or Twelve because of the way they bounce off the Aegis. Also, I'll reiterate, the whole thing is a pseudo combo trap. For anyone except Akuma and Remy, there are two escape points, the second of which is somewhat obvious. If you want to land this trap, you'll have to keep the techniques under wraps until you perform the whole thing. In other words, don't land a bunch of low HP, low MP, whiffed headbutt, throw on your opponent before you try for the 100%, or he may see the technique coming at the end of the trap. Also, it is possible for your opponent to spaz out of either of the neutral throws to lessen the stun. If you try the whiffed headbutt version and they spaz out of the throw at the end, the sequence will not completely stun them (unless you've already hit them, but then it's not a true 100% anyway). 100% Mid-screen Aegis pseudo combo against Akuma If you combine a few of the above concepts, you get this pseudo that doesn't require the corner (in fact you can't be in the corner) and starts with a low HP (so it can be done after a parry) instead of an anti-air sphere. (At least one screen-length from the corner) Low HP, juggle with EX headbutt, juggle with toward+MK, HP Aegis, dash forward, neutral throw, (Aegis Bounce), juggle with EX headbutt, juggle with HP headbutt (stunned). Taunt, jump-in HP, low HP, juggle with EX headbutt, juggle with HP headbutt to KO. Voila - a KO with just that one quick escape point. Make sure you taunt as soon as you land from the HP headbutt to give you the most time. If you add a jump-in HP at the beginning, the whole thing will actually KO several of the weaker characters as well as doing over 90% to most of the rest. It won't work on Hugo, Alex, Dudley, Oro, or Q, since they have long stun bars and it won't work on Necro or Twelve because of how they bounce off the Aegis. Any time you follow the Aegis bounce with a low HP, MP headbutt, you can continue to put pressure on if you have another Aegis full. As soon as you land from the MP headbutt, immediately perform the LP Aegis and charge down. As soon as Urien lets the Aegis go, use the HP headbutt to jump over your downed opponent and sandwich them in. You can then use LPs, low LKs, MPs, or low MKs to bounce your opponent back and forth. If they are blocking your attacks, after a standing MP or two, wait for them to bounce off the Aegis and then just throw them. They may even take an extra hit at the end from the Aegis that's still floating there. And, of course, "What if they quick stand after the MP headbutt juggle?" Well, perform the rest of the technique the same way. Instead of jumping over them with the HP headbutt, it'll put you right in front of them, then just throw. Yes, they could tech it or hit you, but the chaos of the Aegis and HP headbutt makes it look like they're avoiding the technique you were trying for and they won't likely react in time. Yeah, it means you used up an Aegis just to land a throw but that's what the Aegis is all about. Another fact that many people don't know about the Aegis is that the upward (PPP) Aegis comes out in one frame. This is the same speed at which Ryu's Shin Shoryuken, Makoto's Seichusen Godanzuki, etc. come out. This means that it can actually be used in a combo to create a hit or to reflect a projectile (including supers) at point blank range. The Aegis can be used on top of someone in the corner to make them eat cheese damage if you want, but an even better technique is to put the Aegis right in front of them without hitting them. At this point, you can mix up high and low attacks to try and fool your opponent. If they try to attack, the Aegis will knock them back. Keep in mind, if someone is good at defeating your high/low tactics, try using the taunt right next to them. It starts out looking like the toward+HP overhead but then hits low. If the Aegis is actually on top of them, they will then get hit by it and you can juggle. I hope some of that helped. =) Posted by arcticninja on 12:02:2001 12:05 PM: Wow, thanks for the info SlimX. Where's your guide hosted? I wouldn't mind reading the rest of it... Posted by Geese on 12:02:2001 06:40 PM: Urien is cool. His f + forward is my fave move. Oh yeah, throw a lot. Aegis is hard to setup. Sometimes its not really unblockable. So I suggest most use the Temporal Thunder...it dizzies a lot, its good anit-air, good wakeup, and you have 2. So that means u have EX'es, which are good for Urien. Btw, shotos and Chun own Urien, so pick them if u wanna beat him easily. And Dudley SUX against Urien so don't pick him unless u wanna get beaten down BADLY. Remy is good against Urien too. Yun/Yang, good against him too. Hugo gets beaten bad by Urien. Uhh...yeah, this is an Aegis thread, but I thought i'd leave a few small tips for newbies (but if ur newbie, you wouldn't use Aegis, so forget that)... lates... Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 12:02:2001 10:15 PM: Geese, I'd have to say Tyrant Slaughter is better than the Thunder. The Thunder is good for only two things, juggles and anti-air (and the latter is pretty iffy), whereas the Slaughter is your typical "blow-through" super and does a lot of damage for being able to store 2 of them. Josh the FunkDOC But I still say Aegis is his best overall super. Posted by Evil Gill on 12:03:2001 05:46 AM: Slimx - Thanks for the tips. I actually watched several of your matches w/ Ray the other night and picked up a few things. BTW, do you plan on recording any match footage against him any time soon? Geese - I actually prefer to fight against shoto's, because so many people use them, and I know what to expect from their tactics. I wouldn't say shoto's own Urien at all. But I would agree that Chun and Makoto own Urien. Those are very awkward matchups for Urien to deal w/. As for Urien owning Dudley, I'd have to disagree. I'd say they are about evenly matched and probably in the same tier, if you believe 3s has tiers....There's a lot of high level dudley and urien in Nebraska, and it seems to me the match can go either way, IMO. Posted by Shin Kyo on 12:03:2001 07:18 AM: ....SlimX has covered most situation for the Aegis...but the key for setting up any Aegis trap/strategy is to use the Aegis to cancel a move, while purposely whiffing the Aegis so that it won't land directly on your opponent and move forward and throwing them, preferably, onto the Aegis for a juggle... some very effective setup can be as simple as doing a lp Sphere cancel into a Aegis (strength varies) while your opponent is in the corner...two things that happen in this situation is that one, cancelling will give Urien a faster recovery from the Sphere, and two, allowing him to move in for either a throw if Aegis is whiffed or high/low game if Aegis is blocked.... the idea behind this and most other traps is that the Aegis is forcing them to react while having to deal with Urien dashing in...it's mainly mind game and confusion tactics...so, mix it up and don't constantly rely on these traps....smart player don't fall for it everytime.... as for the Thunder vs Tyrant debate....why bother...once you learn the Aegis...you will never go back! Posted by Evil Gill on 12:03:2001 07:43 AM: Would you say this is a decent aegis tactic? Opponent is in corner: Cr. HP -> Chariot tackle -> canceled into -> lp aegis -> step back -> juggle w/ Cr. HP OR standing St. Punch/Medium Kick (which juggles them back to the aegis for a couple quick hits.) Just wish it would juggle more.... I can't seem to get that one down in which you neutral grab the player and drop them on the aegis then go into cr. HP for juggle. I'm going to work on that right now. Whats the most effective way to set that up? Posted by SlimX on 12:03:2001 08:25 AM: O.K. I'll try to address each question in order. Arctic Ninja: You can find my Urien guide on GameFAQs, though I've added a couple new things (like the last 100% Aegis pseudo on Akuma) into an update that I haven't sent in yet. The version currently on GameFAQs has almost everything, though. Evil Gill: We're both retired from playing 3s competitively. =) We've moved on to CvS2. We do have some of our final matches made into movies, but I've not been in the position to upload them anywhere yet. That will hopefully change in the next couple of months. I'll let you know. Shin Kyo: Well, I thought I covered the idea of the non-hit Aegis pretty well. =) Also, the sphere canceled into Aegis is a nice pressure technique but you can't throw them out of it unless they parry the sphere. If it hits or gets blocked, they'll be in hit/block stun and can't be thrown. An EX sphere into Aegis is even better for pressure, since you can actually dash past the EX sphere to attack first, and it's two slow hits are harder to parry. That's just one of many small uses for the Aegis that I didn't cover in my guide because I figured people knew them. Stuff like using the Aegis just to get someone off of you if you're being rushed down is another. The Aegis is the Instant Momentum Switcher. =) Evil Gill again: The best way to do that would actually be low HP, MK tackle into LP Aegis, back up a step, juggle with standing MP, jump towards them, they bounce of the Aegis (it can be parried), hit jumping HP right as they bounce off the Aegis and it will hit. If you wait too long, it'll whiff. The jumping HP has to actually combo together with the Aegis hit. Now, if you're going for damage, this is a waste. In the corner, you can do low HP, EX tackle, HK tackle, LP heabutt/MK tackle/HP for better damage and less meter used. The only real advantage to using the "combo" I detailed above is that it knocks them into the Aegis (which still has a couple hits left in it) as they land. At that point, you can go for a low HK or toward+HP or UOH or whatever to pressure them while they're forced to block (though it can be parried, as usual). I'm not sure exactly what problem you're having with the neutral throw trap. Could you be more specific? Posted by Evil Gill on 12:03:2001 08:54 AM: Just having problems w/ timing that low HP after the player drops on the aegis after a throw....I'm probably just positioned wrong. I'll keep working on it. Thanks again! Posted by Evil Gill on 12:03:2001 09:08 AM: Just finished playing against the computer. I think I feel comfortable w/ aegis now. I have it incorporated nicely into my game. Obviosly you know this tactic already, but I find it useful when the player is backed into a corner to step back and charge a chariot tackle, and cancel that into lp aegis. Then just let the aegis do its thing and hit them w/ a low HP -> ex chariot tackle -> HK chariot tackle -> HP. I'll probably stick w/ that and the famous unblockable for the arcade version. The only way out of the unblockable is if they tech-roll, correct? also can't get that to work on Dudley. For some reason I can't headbutt to the other side of him... So who are you using in Cvs2? I wish they would of put Urien in that game! Then it would be perfect! Posted by SlimX on 12:03:2001 09:23 PM: Evil Gill: Yeah, your opponent can quick stand as he hits the ground to avoid getting trapped in with that particular set-up (neutral throw, LP Aegis, whiffed HP headbutt). However, there are set-ups that cannot be avoided with quick stand. I didn't include the more complex unblockables in my guide because they're only useful in the arcade (since it's fixed on the DC) and I wanted the guide to apply to arcade and Dreamcast. One such true unblockable is this: Low HP, juggle with EX headbutt, walk forward a step, juggle with low HP (just first hit) into LP Aegis (immediately charge back), when the Aegis comes out, whiffed MK tackle (should move you under them to the other side), dash toward them, get right next to them and low MP right as they get up, low HP as they're getting hit by the Aegis, juggle away. In this case, they actually take one hit from the LP Aegis as they're in the air. This prevents quick standing (since you can't quick stand after being hit by a super). This gives you time to dash over to them and do the low MP. The low MP starts moving forward before Urien actually hits with the elbow. This creates an effect of pushing without actually hitting, which makes it unparriable but the action still counts as an attack. As a result, it can be blocked and thus causes the 2-way blocking situation that makes these Aegis traps unblockable. As far as CvS2 goes, I've been playing several different characters. But, since Ray and I don't get much chance to play and we have no other competition, I haven't been playing very seriously and won't be until I return to Austin. The character I've worked the most on is Todo, though I've also played plenty of Joe, Haohmaru, Iori, Terry, Kim, Athena, Chang, and most recently, Rolento. Yeah, it's a shame there's no Urien. The closest equivalent I can think of is Yamazaki (with his long poke range and varying height snake arms) but that's still a stretch. All times are GMT. The time now is 11:31 PM. Show all 12 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.